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MyTherapy Communities (Discussion Forums)
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j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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 Posted - 11/29/2005 : 12:14:46
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hello all
I'm glad to have found this site - I need somewhere to write, ask questions, maybe even give some insights to others. Hopefully this is a place to do it. I've always been a big writer, "journaling" is great for me. I've been to therapists, will probably go again, but much value of therapy is just bouncing things off of someone. I'll try not to turn this (below) into a book...I can type 80 wpm and my brain goes at least that fast - lol, I know when I see posts that are 10000 words long, my eyes glaze over and my brain shuts down...
(as with so much in life, much of the following is because of hindsight - oh if I knew then what I know now!)
I had dysthymia for a years...a vague sense that I didn't have much happiness, fulfillment, ambition, but never got really bad enough to seek help. I should have. It got worse from about 2001 to 04...withdrew from my wife/kids more and more. Stupid little angry outbursts. Not meeting my wife's emotional/love needs, and unfortunately not really caring (she did let me know) as I didn't really care much about anything.
Found out my wife was having an "emotional affair" with a guy, during the Christmas season last year. Non-sexual, but very serious. Thought my marriage was done, fell into a dark, dark, serious depression. Wife decided to try and rebuild our marriage, break it off with the other guy. Went to counseling, marriage and individual. Began taking AD's - Effexor XR. Pulled myself slowly-but-surely out of the hole, made many genuine and needed changes to myself, discovered that I didn't want to be a selfish and depressed guy and devoted myself to my wife and kids...pulled out all the stops to turn the marriage around. Re-discovered my Christian faith, re-discovered what's important in life, became a new man. My wife, however was getting nowhere...just more distant, less loving, less "into it" in general. Yes, I made all the mistakes at first, being clingy, desperate, etc., but for 6 months + I got a life, got strong, became a pretty damn good husband and father...still nothing.
You guessed it, even though my wife had promised to drop other guy (new years 05) she had been in touch with him the entire time, with him promising her the moon. Guy is a manipulator and a genuine SOB - when I told my wife "I'm out of here, I can't take being with someone with no honesty, no commitment, no loyalty," she thought that SOB would, as promised, divorce his wife so they could all live happily ever after (ha)...
again, you guessed it, it was all empty promises and BS he was just after an ego/emotional boost (he's 17 years older than her). So. Harsh reality for my wife. Welcome to the real world, honey. She said she wanted to try again, again promising to break it off with SOB. That was 1st of Sept. I did not slip back into depression again, I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and told my wife, "I'm not your consolation prize. But you have to get into this rebuilding this time, be a participant in the marriage and not a spectator, I'm not hanging around to pay bills and father the kids if you're going to be SOB's puppet again." I'd been a sort of passive doormat, and as Dr. Phil says, "how's that working for you?" Not too well, to say the least, lol.
So, because of love (with a dose of stupidity?), and the fact that I refuse to devastate my kids with a divorce, here we go again, and things seem to be smoothing out somewhat. I've given up the AD's about a month ago...yes some withdrawals, everything you read about that is true, but I seem to be holding together well so far.
So, why am I here? I know I could plunge right back down if I'm not careful. I have a lot of mistrust, some anger, resentment, thoughts of revenge, etc., etc. that I need to get around - they only hurt me and no one else, but it's impossible to get rid of. I have emotions, feelings, energy, faith and hope that I went for 10 - 15 years without, and a lot of those and other feelings are new and hard to get a handle on.
I hope I can get some wisdom/advice from those here who have been down this road, and maybe provide some myself! I have no specific question/issue right now, but here I am...
I've read dozens of "self help" books over the last year...love, relationships, depression, etc. etc. etc. From the secular/clinical all the way to the fundamentalist/preachy and everything in between. Much of which was a case of closing the barn door after the horses had already escaped, but I'm wiser because of it and have a good understanding of relationships, depression, happiness, etc. that I never had before - so its good regardless. I understand the hows/whys and dynamics of marriage, women/men, all that--which should be required learning prior to getting married, but hey.
glad to be here, God Bless
J
(btw I know my "signature quote" is silly on one level - I understand the chemical imbalances, etc. of depression, esp. bi-polar and the like...but I still think there's a lot of truth in old Abe's words...)
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln  |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 11/29/2005 : 15:58:48
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oh. a bit of an edit to my post above...I re-read after writing a few hours ago--the bit about "I'm not hanging around to pay bills/father the kids" was really not as it sounds (!) No, if the bottom falls out of my marriage I'm not washing my hands of my kids! They're my world, my life, I'll always be there.
Just meant I'm not into being a nanny/room mate/bill payer or just a guy who happens to be her husband of 13 years. We're either husband & wife and building an intact, loving, strong family. We're (I'm) not playing the game we (unknown to me) played for 8 months where I'm kept around because it's convenient, while my wife tries to figure out if SOB is gonna be her ticket to happiness. Um no - if she wants to play the "cake eater" game, she'll have to find someone else!
God Bless
J
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| LLOliverR
Super Member (250+ posts)
977 Posts
Gratitude: 11
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Posted - 12/01/2005 : 05:23:38
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Hi j---glad you're with us!
Don't worry about being "long-winded". There's a lot us like that here, myself included.
I've been married for 19 years and have had depression for longer than that, so my husband and I both know what you and your wife have been going through. Our situation is possibly different in that when we became a couple we were kids ourselves (teenagers), our parents' marriages were disintegrating and we had each other to cling to and to support each other. I think that helped make our relationship stronger and has helped us to weather the hard parts of our marriage (my bipolar, his "workaholism", money problems, etc.). It sounds like you have a very good handle on your situation at the moment and that you and your wife are both keeping the lines of communication very open.
Does your wife work outside the home? I know wives can "stray" regardless, but I was just curious whether she was getting confirmation of her self worth from places other than from home. I, myself, am a stay-at-home-mom for the most part. I do run a storage building business for my dad and brother from my home, but that's not the same as working for non-family. It does help my ego to make that second paycheck, but it's still not the same as when I worked in an office and got performance reviews and had "job deadlines" and other things that seemed more important.
You mentioned church and religion being important to you now. Are they important to your wife as well? Maybe the two of you together and/or individually might be able to seek counseling at your church. I did that at one time and it helped me. I am now seeing a therapist that specializes in bipolar, because I am dealing with issues that are more specific to that condition. But, when I was working through post-partum depression, my pastor was helpful for me.
It also might be helpful for your wife to find something outside the home like volunteer work, if she doesn't have a job. You also didn't mention the ages of your kids, which can make a big difference, too. I love our kids tremendously, but it was such a relief when they both started school full-time and I finally had my life "back" during the day! (They are 8 and 13.)
There may also be ALL kinds of issues that your wife is going through right now that have little to nothing to do with you that may be affecting her feelings over this other guy. Let us know a little bit more about whether she has a job, how old your kids are, if they are in school, etc., and maybe we women members can give you some more input. In the meantime, please feel free to come back and join us at any time. This is a very friendly group.
I think you mentioned that you had quit your meds (AD's?). That's great and some people just need them for a while to get through a rough patch. (I have some friends who needed them during a divorce or while grieving over the death of a loved one and that was it.) I would caution you to keep an eye on your depression. Unfortunately, there are some of us who aren't so lucky and find that we have to take the meds long-term. If you think your starting down that "icky road" again, I would recommend you see a therapist or your doctor just for a reality check before it gets too bad. I've decided I'm going to do that in the future indefinitely. Once I've gotten my meds and moods under control this time, I'm going to leave a standing 6th month "reality check" appointment with my therapist, because I have a tendency to think that I can "fix" the problem myself when I'm feeling bad and by the time I realize I can't I'm a real mess. It sounds from your email that you have a much much much better handle on this than I do. I envy you!
Again welcome
LL |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 12/01/2005 : 10:41:57
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Thanks for the welcome, LL...
yes, I do seem to have a handle on my depression at this point - but like you, I worry that (as I well know) if it were to happen that I am slipping down into depression - social withdrawal, anger, "not caring" attitude, etc., that I wouldn't realize it until it's creating serious problems. So, I really have to make sure I do personal inventory, a lot. The thing with depression (pointed out by a good counselor I saw several months back) is that it can be so insidious...so slow and gradual that you can't see yourself getting a tiny bit worse, week by week, month after month, and neither can your friends/family. Until you wake up one day and realize you, and your life, are in shambles. I've told my wife she needs to call me on the carpet whenever she sees the need. But, of course she's dealing with her own demons. She has some sort of low-level depression going on now that she (we) need to get her through. Some typical "midlife" type stuff, plus the fact that her knight in shining armor who was going to provide her a perfect, happy life turned out to be a self-serving, manipulative @$$hole! Boo Hoo Hoo, let's get the violin player here, right? (sorry I do get a bit cynical about her hurting/betraying me and then being sad because SOB didn't come through for her...probably something to work through in therapy!) Kind of hard to have much sympathy for her in that - geez honey the writing was on the wall, everybody in the world saw it but her  , when everybody who knows him (I talked to several good, trustworthy people last winter) says John Doe is the biggest @$$hole in the state, the fact that he's "nice/kind/affectionate/loving" to you doesn't get around the fact that, surprise!--John Doe's probably still an @$$hole! Some people have to learn things the hard way, I guess - I know I often do!
My wife does work full time, as an elementary teacher in a public school. Our kids are 11, 8, and 4 (almost 5). Two girls and the "baby boy." Greatest thing ever, bar none - which is in large part why, when I thought my marriage was over last Jan, I really hit bottom. I was in a terrible and dark place for a couple of months, thinking that the one thing in my life that was really, really a blessing and was really my primary responsibility to do right - raise my kids in an intact, loving, safe and secure family and environment, had been #$*&ed completely up, mostly through my actions.
The lines of communication aren't nearly as open as they should be for us to grow and connect. I'm more of an "open book" than ever, but my wife isn't too forthcoming with what's going on in her head and heart. She has a lot of vaguely defined woes, which she acknowledges, just a lot of typical mid-life stuff (yeah I've read a few "mid-life crisis" books, too! lol) of thinking "is this all there is to life?" not feeling too fulfilled, bored, lack of passion. And here I was for the last several years, not meeting her emotional/affection needs. Now I am genuinely doing that, and on the same token I find I actually have needs for love, attention, non-sexual affection, emotional connection--things I kept bottled up for most of my life. And, as you can imagine, my wife didn't just do a 180 and jump up and down and throw herself at me with this stuff, and she isn't really too accepting of what I have to offer, either. There's some mistrust, some resentment/grudge holding, that type of thing on her part, which is understandable. So, time and plain hard work on my part will hopefully begin to heal us in that.
My wife does realize that she needs to possibly begin to do some things in life she can be passionate about and get fulfillment from - maybe some volunteer work, hobbies, etc. that provide more of a sense of doing things for the good of others. I think her job is probably more important and fulfilling than she realizes - 1st grade teacher in a school that is mostly poor, single parents, disadvantaged kids, that type of thing, and she does great things for those kids - but again it's probably a case that she can't see that from the inside. Lots of petty internal politics and power trips and "game playing" and new mandatory policies and such in her school and District have soured her somewhat, too. So she has vague thoughts of changing careers. She's the type, though, to have lots of ideas and big plans and aspirations, and she'll sort of get into the preliminary stages of, for example, going back to school, getting a volunteer position, getting into an intense new exercise/fitness program, etc. etc., then never actually following up and doing it.
So. I'm careful not to tell her what she should/shouldn't do, not to give unwanted advice, not be judgmental, not criticize...but she does need to make life happen, rather than expecting things to just fall into place (as I've discovered, among 1000 other things, for myself).
She's started indiv. counseling. Which is good, but again she really doesn't open up and discuss with me specifics of why, what she's after, what she wants answers to, etc. (I feel like asking her to tell me what's going on, what she's struggling with more specifically, it doesn't seem like a healthy marriage dynamic to not have openness and honesty with what you're dealing with, what decisions are you trying to reach, etc., but otoh I don't want to be nosy and prying  ). She just started, been to one session, and of course I'd give my left arm to be a fly on the wall there, but...lol Although on one hand, her going is just great, I'm actually a little worried - she was going to go shortly after the big "almost got divorced" incident Sept 1st, then didn't, now out of the blue she's going. I know it's the midlife/happiness fulfillment stuff...but I can't help wonder about the possiblity she's still got some sort of life line going with the SOB/other man, and she's looking for guidance there. I hope/pray the counselor cuts right through the crap with that thing and says to my wife, "ok, lets make a list of why that thing will never work and can't possibly be good or lasting for anybody," and then proceed to make a list with about a million reasons. I mean, any 2nd marriage has about a 60% chance of failure, higher with stepkids involved--I think you could safely say that my wife being with SOB would have 99% chance, lol. But being able to say "I told you so" after my kids went through the wringer would not be too satisfying. I think on one level she realizes that even if she did "get with" him it would be an absolute disaster for all involved - but unfortunately the fact is, he's very charming and reassuring and manipulative, and since she's not too happy now, his promises of "happy-happy-love-love-love" I'm sure still seem really attractive to her, even though I think clearly they'd be happy for a few months or so, then "real life" would rear it's ugly head and she'd end up 10 times as unhappy as she's ever been before...there's just so much with that guy and that situation that would just be so awful that once the "junior high crush" feelings went away (they would), what would be left would be just bleak and unpleasant. I could go on for an hour why, but trust me...yes, I obsess on that thing - not healthy - but I worked my butt off for 8 months to put it aside and get past it and it hit me again, out of the blue like a semi-truck...so once bitten, twice shy (how 'bout twice bitten? shy for the rest of your life? lol) But, a tremendous amount of insecurity with me with that
So I struggle with that a lot. The trust has been broken between us, and it's awful hard not to be suspicious. We don't discuss the whole thing because it always ends up in a big, emotional mess (not healthy to pretend it doesn't exist, I know).
As my wife seems to do a lot of "coasting along" waiting for things to happen (in our marriage, her career, our lives in general) I struggle with thoughts of, "hey - she has no appreciation for what she has ('the perfect is the enemy of the good' applies here), she doesn't really count her blessings. She doesn't appreciate the man I've become." She seems to want some undefined 'something else' in life, rather than finding happiness in the things we have and are blessed with--so I do have thoughts that "maybe I should just go live alone for a while--she'll only appreciate what she's got when she wakes up one day and it's gone." Those thoughts are probably not too realistic or constructive, I know. I don't think I can do that and face my kids' sadness and disappointment. But I wonder sometimes...
Anyhow, I sure wish my wife would "let me in" and take some of my newfound knowledge, energy, happiness, etc. and let me do what I can to get her where she needs to be. But, as we all know here, you can't change someone - they have to want to change, and do that themselves. So, on we go.
Thanks to mytherapy for giving me a place to ramble on and vent!
J
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| LLOliverR
Super Member (250+ posts)
977 Posts
Gratitude: 11
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Posted - 12/05/2005 : 06:43:59
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Hi j,
At least your wife is trying some therapy.
I think you mentioned in your first message that you are active in church. Have you spoken to anyone at church about your marital problems? Especially about working to forgive your wife? NOT that I'm saying that that would be easy at all! When my husband and I were first married and we were discussing infidelity I said I MIGHT forgive one indiscretion (but I wasn't sure if I could) and he said he didn't think he could even forgive one. (This conversation came up, because both of our parents are divorced, partially because of adultery.)
I do know of marriages that have been able to heal after one of the partners cheated (male and female), so don't give up hope. You are right that your wife is going to have to find her own way...in her career, with her therapy, in finding a hobby, etc. You'll just have to pray for patience, I guess.
I'm glad that your kids mean so much to you and I hope that you can all have a nice holiday. Good luck!
LL |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 12/12/2005 : 11:17:34
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hey LL
Yeah, we've talked to our pastor, last August when everything sort of blew up. That was helpful, but my wife just doesn't find much value in the counseling...of course all of our counseling prior to the August incedent was (in hindsight) a ridiculous farce. We were there, spending the time and $, and here I was willing to do (and was doing) anything and everything possible to turn our marriage around and the entire time my wife was in touch with SOB. Their "thing" was non sexual...which I do believe, but contrary to what anybody who's not been through it, that doesn't make as much difference as you might think. If your spouse is essentially looking to throw you in the gutter to "trade up" with another guy, saying how "deeply in love" they are, etc. etc., the fact that they never screwed doesn't make it a heck of a lot better. The fact she was willing & ready to toss me aside is something I struggle with terribly every day, the fact that, as written above, the SOB is really just not a good guy in any way, shape or form is just a real blow to my self worth, my self esteem, my ego I guess (his only redeeming quality, in talking to folks that have known him for a long time, is his ability to charm and sweet talk my wife to the point she worshipped/worships the ground he walks on--that's pretty admirable if you're not her husband, lol). So that still hurts a lot - even though on one level I know I'm a damn good guy in most every way, it still runs through my mind like an endlessly-looped tape that "how good a guy can I be if I was being 'replaced' by a guy that people find just all-around disgusting?!?!?" Hard to keep the sunny side up with that, I'll tell ya! But I'm getting through...Like Jesus told (Paul, I think?), I might have to forgive her 490 (?) times...I think I'm up to at least a couple hundred at this point! And I'll continue...but if she gets back in touch with him (which unfortunately, I do still fear), I'm just gonna have to throw in the towel. Enough's enough.
take care,
J
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| LLOliverR
Super Member (250+ posts)
977 Posts
Gratitude: 11
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Posted - 12/16/2005 : 07:24:03
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Hi j,
I can see why it would hurt to know your wife was emotionally intimate with the jerk. I would find that as painful as if my spouse were physically intimate with someone else. Is your wife as "religious" as you are? (I put that word in quotes, because it's not one of my favorite words, but I couldn't think of a better one to use to ask my question with.) If not, that might be why the pastoral counseling did not work as well for her or she might not have been ready yet.
Are things going better now that Christmas is getting closer or are things getting tenser? I hope you and your family are able to have a joyous Christmas. Perhaps if you're able to focus on the religious aspects of it, it will be a more joyous time for all of you.
LL |
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| Heatherzed
Full Member (100+ posts)
241 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 12/20/2005 : 08:40:12
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Hello J_Colo,
This sounds awful, but I can relate to your wife! Not in that I approve of cheating on people or anything, but just in her general listlessness and unwillingness to act to make her life better. I think we are the same type of person. It is not a good thing, but I can identify so many points of her character and her attitude that are idenitcal to myself.
I tend to just watch the world go by and let things happen, and hope that things will work out without much effort on my part. Perhaps this could be because, when you are really young, this is what actually does happen quite a lot of the time. Well, in my case it did anyway. We need to learn that as you get older life is not just handed to you on a plate and we do need to put in some degree of effort to see results.
I am going through a phase of complete apathy at the moment where I care about nothing. It feels really unhealthy and wrong, but at least I am beginning to recognise it and so now, perhaps, I can try to remedy the situation.
I would say that your wife needs to step back for a moment and see all the good that she has in her life. She is obvioulsy a life saver to so many of the children she teachers, but she can't see it, otherwise she would not feel so down. It's really hard but sometimes we need to step back to see the bigger picture and not get bogged down by the little (though numerous) irrelevent things.
I have done some teaching in the past, and am also a volunteer in several ongoing projects. This has made me feel so much better about things. It is the one thing that gets me out of bed in a morning....and not a lot does that, I can tell you!
Perhaps she needs a break from what she is doing so that on her return she can see things in a different light and see what a difference her presense actually makes. Maybe she would miss the teaching too, so that she would have a new lease of life with it when she went back, and see what a worthwhile thing she is doing.
I know, too, like your wife, how hard it is to forget someone that you have affection for, however wrong you know it is. I have been in the same situation with a long term boyfriend before. I developed a crush - just like one that you'd have at school, totally unrealistic - on an older man. I knew it was stupid and that it just couldn't happen, but nothing could stop me from thinking about him none-stop. I didn't tell my boyfriend of these feelings, as I didn't want to hurt him, but I was completely distracted from our relationship as a result of the crush, and so he must have known something was wrong. The whole thing culminated in the older guy and I sleeping together after a drunken night out. We both felt terrible afterwards and for a while it ruined both out lives. He was married with a child, and within six months of this incident was divorced. I also split with my partner within a year.
So, it was not worth it and it ruined so many good things. At least your wife has not gone this far, even though I understand the torment that comes from just knowing that she is thinking about him, etc.
It will take a while for your wife to get "back into" your relationship, but it will be worth it if it means you can get your marriage back on track. It will be hard though. And there is all the mistrust and bitterness that she has created in you by behaving this way for you to work through, too. Though, from your messages, you seem to be coping extremely well. I wish I could cope with such maturity and good sense.
You are doing everything in your power to rebuild a healthy marriage and create a loving family environment for your children. This deserves medals!! In time I hope your wife can learn to love you again and see what a good thing she has with you. It would help if she could get over her hero-worship of this other guy and see him for what he is - no good - but I know how hard this can be. You build things, or people, up in your mind so that they appear perfect and without fault. When she drops back down to reality maybe she will realise the truth, that she is much better off with you and her children.
It will just take time and effort on her part, which she does not seem to give as readily as you. As I said earlier, it must be a certain type of person that thinks and acts this way, as I can so relate to her, though I'm not proud of it and wish I was not this way. I also have problems with coming forward with information on how I feel, like your wife, and this is not good for the communication pathways of an honest and open relationship. I am trying to work through these problems and will hopefully emerge at the other end as honest and open as can be!! Or, as much as I personally could ever hope to be anyway!
Well, sorry to have written so much and rambled on, just wanted to reply to help you see that your wife's behaviour and reasoning are quite common (although not necessarily good), and to commend you on how well you appear to be dealing with this situation.
There is hope for us all, I think. I am certainly hoping to change for the better...sometime before I die...!
Heather xx |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 12/21/2005 : 13:05:51
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thanks for your input, Heather.
I almost wish my wife had had just a drunken fling. Hard to believe. But she was actively pursuing a "future" with this guy, believing he would be a viable husband/significant other/whatever. He strung my wife along for quite some time with promises that he would divorce his own wife for her, but then when she told him she was splitting with me (we were, in no uncertain terms, getting divorced for 3-4 days last Aug.), he claimed that he'd decided his family was just too important to him after all. (are you sick to your stomach--I am!) Actually this guy is getting up towards retirement age, and realized he'd be giving 1/2 of his money and assets to his wife, and suddenly my wife didn't look like she was worth that...not to mention he's stupid but not that stupid, he had to realize that a man with his relationship issues (many), and him being old enough to be her father (seems kind of sick and twisted to me, but not uncommon), and him being a man in his mid 50's who'd suddenly have three very young kids around (I know I could not tolerate raising my kids if they weren't my own flesh & blood, lol), not to mention he'd witnessed my wife first hand betray and lie to me...with all that (and more) he realized the reality that there was a 99.9% chance of it being a train wreck in the future--probably sooner rather than later. And he saw the writing on the wall--he'd end up a poor, alone, aging divorced guy...
I know how hard the "crush" or infatuation stage or new romance thing is to be rational about. I've been there (in my youth) and as I said previously, I've read about 100 books that detail how that works. It's actually a chemical "high" when you get involved with someone new, and reason and logic goes right out the window. That's why it's taboo (as it should be) for married folks to get involved in friendships with members of the opposite sex where you begin getting together one-on-one and talking about personal-type stuff--it's almost inevitable, a recipe for disaster.
A friend of mine cautioned me about beating myself up too bad for "setting my wife up" for being vulnerable to that, which I did do. But he said he got involved in an emotional affair with a woman, while his marriage was in good shape. He said it was the hardest thing he's ever had to do to not let it turn sexual and destroy his marriage. He did the right thing for his wife & 2 young kids, but said it was nearly an impossible thing to do to break it off...
I keep hoping my wife will begin to count her blessings and take some happiness and fulfillment out of her life--there's a tremendous amount to be had, but she seems to have this vague sense that there's just gotta be some greener grass right over the next fence...and I get the impression she feels the grass she's on now has no excitement, passion or love. She doesn't get it that those are things that you find in yourself and put into your life, they don't come about with a new man, a new job, a new house or car...She does pay some "lip service" to counting some of her blessings, but I think it's pretty empty for the most part.
So, Heather how long did it take for your crush/infatuation to subside? Was the guy a pretty good man, or a sort of people user/self-serving type who has no problem using innocent people as stepping stones in his life? What was the age difference? During your crush, did you (as my wife did/does) envision a real future with this guy, or did you approach it all along as a temporary affair? How did you finally get past your "hero worship." Is he still around? The hero worship thing is just tough and hard to get around...it seems that SOB my wife found could basically be a mass murderer or baby raper or something and my wife would still worship the ground he walks on. Hard for me to cope with--as I said before, I have thoughts of "how good a guy can I be if she prefers an ugly, evil idiot like this?" Crazymaking stuff.
Yeah, it's tough and it's gonna take time. I do seem to be coping well, all things considered. But I still waver between wanting to absolutely do anything to make this thing work (for all five of our sakes) and wanting to throw in the towel because, geez how many times do you get walked on and made a fool of before you've had enough? I don't know. Like I keep telling myself all the time, "this is all new to me...I'm totally making it up as I go along."
I agree that it would be good if my wife could just get out of her life for a month or two or three...but I don't know if that's realistic with jobs/kids etc. I sometimes wonder if it's gonna take me hitting the road and her living as a single mother, in near poverty before she wakes up to the real world. And that might be the end, anyway. I mean I'm no Brad Pitt or Romeo but I know some ladies...I know it's crass but geez. Unlike my wife, however, I understand that regardless if you have the "crush" thing and sparks flying or not, or who you find, or what connection you make, a long term relationship takes work, attention, devotion, faith, honesty, willingness to forgive, and a tremendous amount of give & take. With the potential mates available to middle aged folk like us, it's not gonna be like a 20 year old trying to find a "hook up." That's all sort of pessimistic and kind of cynical, but I'm not going to spend forever as a sort of "item" she's put on layaway while she decides if she really wants me or if she wants to head off to greener pastures. I have a shred of dignity and self respect...even though it would crush my kids, there might reach a point where I just can't deal with it.
But, need to keep a PMA. Attitude is everything.
Thanks again for your input, look forward to hearing what you have to say. Oh, and I think you Brits are just the greatest! lol
J
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| LLOliverR
Super Member (250+ posts)
977 Posts
Gratitude: 11
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Posted - 12/27/2005 : 13:34:41
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J,
You have GOT go quit comparing yourself to this other guy or they are going to be fitting you for a straight jacket! Look around at your couple-friends. I am sure there are more couples that you "scratch your head over and wonder how they ever got together" than ones where you think "boy, they are just perfect for each other". Love, infatuation, crushes, they never make sense. People couldn't understand how my husband and I ever became a couple and, quite frankly, we have both scratched our heads over the fact that we ended up together. (Don't get me wrong. We're glad we did. We're just 2 very different people and not what we thought we wanted in mates.)
That doesn't mean she will end up with the idiot. She just hasn't been able to see the "real him" yet. It doesn't mean you have to wait forever for her to wake up, though. How long to wait is something only you can decide and I don't envy you that at all. 
Good luck!
LL |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 01/03/2006 : 16:04:36
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hey LL
yes, I probably need to get a "men's large"
Well, I've made a big, no-turning-back step...I moved out. After going on a long road trip with the family, having a really good xmas with wife's sister in law, having a pretty nice experience, my wife felt compelled a few days later to sit me down and have a talk, where she prefaced by saying she doesn't want a divorce just now, however she still doesn't have any "romantic/emotional" feelings towards me--our recent attempts at sex and all of my nonsexual affections and attention, etc. are accepted by her "only out of obligation." She feels we have been moving along like everything was better, but it really just isn't, and she wanted to be honest. We've gone through this scenario before--I swear sometimes it seems she simply can't bear to see me going forward with hope and optimism, so she feels she must dump a bucket of ice water on me and take me down a few notches. I suppose I appreciate the honesty on one level, but just basically as I've said before, I've been pulling out all the stops for an entire year, doing whatever humanly possible to try and get this thing at least starting to turn around, and she's done absolutely zilch to try and build something romantic and loving and affectionate. I've gone over a zillion times that you work on those things, you build them, you do romantic and loving things to begin creating that--but she has stubbornly sat back the entire time, waiting for some vague "thing" to come floating by in the air I guess. It ain't gonna happen, honey. (Am I wrong/misguided in this??? Why does she act like that's some preposterous and ridiculous idea about love, romance, emotion???) It's all just too confusing and brain damaging to just tread water like this. Confusing and exhausting. So I'm in a little dirt-cheap, month-to-month 1 br apartment until she either says, "you're right, lets put something into action in this relationship that has a snowball's chance of getting us somewhere," or, I'll eventually have to throw in the towel and get a "real" place of my own. And it's been 2 days and I can feel the sadness and guilt that I've hurt my kids threatening to darken...I'm gonna do absolutely everything in my power to keep a positive attitude and beat this thing down without A.D.'s...diet, exercise, contact with real people, faith and prayer.
I asked her, during our talk, "so you just want to go into a holding pattern as sort of room mates for some undefined period of time while you 'heal'??? Yeah, she does. The healing is from breaking off with the SOB. That would hold some water after a month or three...it's been five. I can't deal with it. It's like she slashed me up with a knife, and got a little cut in the process, and she wants me to lay around a an untreated, bleeding mess until she attends to her little cut--and then there's no guarantee from her whatsoever that she's not gonna just leave me laying there when she's finished "healing." I love her so much, but maybe she's just become too self-serving and self centered and uncaring to be with. She didn't used to be this way
Take care all, God Bless
J
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| Amie (inactive)
Super Member (250+ posts)
746 Posts
Gratitude: 9
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Posted - 01/04/2006 : 11:11:44
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Hi J,
That is so sad what is happening to you. I haven't posted until now but I have been following your story. It is really obvious that you have a mature understanding about relationships and love and that your wife doesn't. I don't want to tell you what to do but I know that I would certainly be losing my patience. It seems like she is okay with treating you like a carpet to be tread on. And that she wants to be in the limbo stance between you and this other guy. So just know that you are not being paranoid, oversensitive etc if you feel these things. I hope this gets worked out for you soon so that you can have your life back.
Amie |
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| LLOliverR
Super Member (250+ posts)
977 Posts
Gratitude: 11
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Posted - 01/09/2006 : 15:04:22
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Hi J,
Sorry I haven't written for a while. I'm glad that Christmas was at least nice for you and your kids. My parents were in a similar situation as yours in that my mom moved out and hoped and hoped that my dad would change, but it didn't happen and they divorced. As harsh as this will sound, you are a bit luckier than she in that my dad led her on for 5 years with promises to change/leave his girlfriend that he never delivered on and she (who still loves him to this day <sigh>) clung to that hope and kept her life in limbo for 5 years instead of moving on sooner.
Unfortunately, people do change and not always the way we would like for them to... Hopefully, this separation will cause her to open her eyes and see what she's had right under her nose all along.
As always, I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
LL
P.S. Get some live plants for that apartment and see if that doesn't make it feel at least a little "homier!" |
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| j_colo
Starting Member
17 Posts
Gratitude: 1
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Posted - 01/10/2006 : 14:03:52
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Hi LL
yeah...but I'm not going to fall for it for that long. I'm giving this whatever I can, so if/when a divorce does happen, and my kids' lives are turned upside down for a very long time, I can look them in the eye, and look myself in the mirror, and say, "I truly did everything humanly possible to avoid it." My wife will probably say she "tried," but clearly it's an empty and less than halfhearted effort thus far. I guess she just doesn't care.
J
PS - did your dad's girlfriend end up being a truly longterm relationship? How did you guys deal with her or interact with her? Did your mom get involved in a fulfilling relationship later on? Just curious.
Most people are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.
-Abraham Lincoln |
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| fiona™©
Full Member (100+ posts)
105 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 15:16:31
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Hi J Colo,
I am not up to giving a full reply right now, late hour in the UK. Just want to say that I am fully behind you in what you have done. You have taken a brave step, but a step in favour of the sanctity of marriage.
I wish you all the very best in your life and your children's too.
With your permission, you are in my prayers.
Take good care of yourself.
Hugs
Fiona x |
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| scuder
Starting Member
8 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2006 : 15:43:29
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Well, well, well...you have been through the gambit to say the least, I would say!! I am sorry that this has happened...
However, and, I am going out on a BIG LIMB here in revealing this! Please do not judge me, but I can relate to how your wife was "suckered" in by this other man....
I am single, however, in my work got to be friends with a man who I knew was married. I never thought much about it, but, the more we talked and got to know each other...the more intense our "casual" relationship has become.
There is a big difference, however, in that I am the single one here...One very important thing...WE have never met! It all happened over the telephone, a client we deal with. We now talk almost everyday and exchange emails on a daily basis. He has been married to his wife for 11 years and they have no children. I am not proud of this situation, but simply trying to give you the insight from the "other side". I do not want to be considered a "home wrecker" because I am not! I am not the one that is married here...yet, feel very guilty of the situation....in the midst of depression and panic...however, am finding it EXTREMELY difficult to let him go! He wants to meet, but I keep putting it off, knowing full well that if we do...I will be worse off than what I am already...emotionally that is. So, I guess the point I am trying to make is, while you were battling with your own inner crisis, and your wife was not getting what she wanted/needed from the marriage, she sought fufillment from the outside....very easy to do when one is feeling lonely and estranged. Women need attention...and, I am speaking for all women here...Men sometimes do not understand the attentions that we need...much more than sexual, trust me. And, it is PROVEN that men look to sex to make things all better. Well, with us women, it just doesn't happen that way...we want, and have to have more....I am not sure if this is making sense, but thought I would ramble a little myself here. So, my suggestion to you is....do what you feel, in your heart, you need to do, but do not neglect yourself and your needs in the interim. Back to me...I want so badly to meet this guy, but, it just is not a good thing...and, just got done writing him an email saying...I will meet you when you have your divorce decree in hand!! Now, what are the chances of that happening...most married men are just out for one thing...not all, but most, and we all know what that is.....right?
Good luck to you, and try to keep yourself together!!! |
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